Originally posted by

Doug

State Hornet... This is DISGUSTING. Talk about a witch hunt! Are you that desperate for a story? THERE IS NO STORY! Way to drag a bunch of people into this mess. So what, someone had a penis drawn on them! Good lord! Not a penis! I can not stop laughing, I really can't. You've got nothing and I'm enjoying the reflection of that in your poll. No one was hurt. No one got alcohol poisoning. No one complained and yet you still chose to make something out of nothing... UNBELIEVABLY irresponsible on your part. Shame on you all...

Originally posted by

Kelly

As the mother of one of the soccer players on the womens team I feel compelled to weigh in on this article. What struck me first was the feeling that the State Hornet was bashing their fellow students, without regard for the truth of what they were reporting. If, and I mean IF there were incidents of hazing this would be an important story for the Hornet to report. However, this behaviour was typical college high jinks where fun was had and no one was hurt OR coerced. Ironically, my daughter shared with me that this particular party was one of the best soccer parties she had attended. There was genuine bonding and friendships being built between the players on the team. Certainly as a parent we all cringe at some of the activities that happen when our children go away to college. However, these are the experiences of youth that are often the most treasured memories of college years. Let's keep in mind that everyone who participated in this event chose to do so, the freshmen willingly dressed in costumes and behaved in silly ways; just as the freshmen who came before them did. The State Hornet should be reminded that these are their peers; their classmates. This is your University, one that you should be proud of rather than trying to cast a negative light on a group of women who were having fun, post season, experiencing college as I'm sure many do. Go find something relevent to report on; or don't report at all.

Originally posted by

Finally! Athletes brought to light...

I don't know what's sadder; the fact that the poor girls had to go through this or that they thought it was cool to put degrading pictures of themselves online. Smooth, real smooth. Greeks have tons of guidelines and rules to follow when it comes to their new members and I think it's time that these same rules come into practice with other student organizations. To say that these acts are okay.... "The rookie party is a tradition that takes place every year, in every sport. It is all fun and games and in the case of the women's soccer team it is not hazing" ....is completely ridiculous. Do you know how many Greeks have had their chapter's TRADITIONS taken away from them within the past year that are NOTHING like this? I have also seen pictures of these freshman initiation parties randomly online and always wondered how they got away with it...well, things change.

Originally posted by

Brandon Abell

Why are we violating these girls' privacy for no good reason? No kidding you should the faces blurred. Your minds were a bit blurred as well if you think this warrants any kind of investigation. What's the point of being alive if you're not having fun once in a while?

It's just like people who dig around other people's trash or eavesdrop on conversations then rant and rave about what "shocking" things they've discovered. . . How about the lack of decency in nosing around other people's business?

Originally posted by

A concerned alum

Good work on the part of the Hornet for finally bringing sports teams into the same category of criticism that Greek organizations have been put in to for years. Just because athletics teams are giving something back to the school i.e. giving a bigger budget or bringing them some notoriety, the administration turns a blind eye to the fact that these rituals continue. If these photos had surfaced with the headline "Sorority "New Member" Party Caught on Camera" you can be sure that Tom Carroll as well as the University administration would have been all over this! Why then, are these teams not held to the same standards. The rituals that are performed in Greek organizations for and with their new members are ones that have been passed down for years, and in some instances, generations, but they have been taken away because they are deemed hazing. How are these "freshman parties" any different? To my knowledge everyone at this party had a really great time and nothing was found to be out of control. However, does any one remember the senior-junior yearly powder puff football game in Illinois that ended with several people in the hospital? http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200305/tows_past_20030527.jhtml Behavior like this had never happened before, but all it takes is ONE TIME to have things get out of control. That's why these things need to be investigated.
Being a member of an organization I full-heartily believe that these freshmen girls went to this party "willingly" and that they dressed up "willingly" and that they "let" the upperclassmen draw all over them. I use the term willingly lightly because these girls didn't really have a choice. It was either go and participate in the "rituals" or stay at home and miss out on what the rest of their teammates were doing, thereby ostracizing the ones who stayed home for the rest of the year. If even one of those girls felt uncomfortable with what was going on, and I'm not saying that any of them did, who was gonna stand up to the upperclassmen and tell them "No". This, people, is hazing and it's about time that the athletes are given the same treatment for it that the sororities and fraternities are.

Originally posted by

A concerned alum

Good work on the part of the Hornet for finally bringing sports teams into the same category of criticism that Greek organizations have been put in to for years. Just because athletics teams are giving something back to the school i.e. giving a bigger budget or bringing them some notoriety, the administration turns a blind eye to the fact that these rituals continue. If these photos had surfaced with the headline "Sorority "New Member" Party Caught on Camera" you can be sure that Tom Carroll as well as the University administration would have been all over this! Why then, are these teams not held to the same standards. The rituals that are performed in Greek organizations for and with their new members are ones that have been passed down for years, and in some instances, generations, but they have been taken away because they are deemed hazing. How are these "freshman parties" any different? To my knowledge everyone at this party had a really great time and nothing was found to be out of control. However, does any one remember the senior-junior yearly powder puff football game in Illinois that ended with several people in the hospital? http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200305/tows_past_20030527.jhtml Behavior like this had never happened before, but all it takes is ONE TIME to have things get out of control. That's why these things need to be investigated.
Being a member of an organization I full-heartily believe that these freshmen girls went to this party "willingly" and that they dressed up "willingly" and that they "let" the upperclassmen draw all over them. I use the term willingly lightly because these girls didn't really have a choice. It was either go and participate in the "rituals" or stay at home and miss out on what the rest of their teammates were doing, thereby ostracizing the ones who stayed home for the rest of the year. If even one of those girls felt uncomfortable with what was going on, and I'm not saying that any of them did, who was gonna stand up to the upperclassmen and tell them "No". This, people, is hazing and it's about time that the athletes are given the same treatment for it that the sororities and fraternities are.

Originally posted by

A concerned alum

Good work on the part of the Hornet for finally bringing sports teams into the same category of criticism that Greek organizations have been put in to for years. Just because athletics teams are giving something back to the school i.e. giving a bigger budget or bringing them some notoriety, the administration turns a blind eye to the fact that these rituals continue. If these photos had surfaced with the headline "Sorority "New Member" Party Caught on Camera" you can be sure that Tom Carroll as well as the University administration would have been all over this! Why then, are these teams not held to the same standards. The rituals that are performed in Greek organizations for and with their new members are ones that have been passed down for years, and in some instances, generations, but they have been taken away because they are deemed hazing. How are these "freshman parties" any different? To my knowledge everyone at this party had a really great time and nothing was found to be out of control. However, does any one remember the senior-junior yearly powder puff football game in Illinois that ended with several people in the hospital? http://www.oprah.com/tows/pastshows/200305/tows_past_20030527.jhtml Behavior like this had never happened before, but all it takes is ONE TIME to have things get out of control. That's why these things need to be investigated.
Being a member of an organization I full-heartily believe that these freshmen girls went to this party "willingly" and that they dressed up "willingly" and that they "let" the upperclassmen draw all over them. I use the term willingly lightly because these girls didn't really have a choice. It was either go and participate in the "rituals" or stay at home and miss out on what the rest of their teammates were doing, thereby ostracizing the ones who stayed home for the rest of the year. If even one of those girls felt uncomfortable with what was going on, and I'm not saying that any of them did, who was gonna stand up to the upperclassmen and tell them "No". This, people, is hazing and it's about time that the athletes are given the same treatment for it that the sororities and fraternities are.

Originally posted by

Dr. Lipkins

True, these pictures look like a halloween party, and true it could be "innocent" fun. However, hazing is defined by a tradition in which an activity is or could be potentially demeaning, degrading, physically or psychologically harmful. Perhaps some kids do not mind having curses or penises drawn in permanent marker all over their body, but perhaps some do. Any freshmen who protested would certainly suffer some consequence, if none other than being ostracized by the group. Therefore, speaking out, breaking the code of silence, or simply stating "I do not want to be subjected to these pranks" is rarely done.

The fact that the only students in costume, and scrawled on were freshmen, further illustrates the fact that this is likely the beginning stages of a mild hazing.

Why? Because one group, the one with least status and power, is required by older students, those with more status and power to engage in an activity which is not needed nor helpful to their role as soccer players, athletes or students in general.

Before you give me the "bonding" rhetoric, consider the fact that the group could bond, all being treated equally, by engaging in an altruistic activity that might benefit others. An activity that truly builds bonds within a team, one that does not require the younger players to be treated unequally, or like slaves.

Servitude, by the way, is another mild form of hazing, and it is likely to be occuring throughout the country by thousands of students who are beginning their pledge process in fraternities and sororities.

I advise all who are interested to scour the websharing sites for further evidence. You will find lots of pictures such as the ones posted here, of parties that are being given in the name of "sisterhood" and which are, in fact, hazing.

It is exactly these kinds of activities that Matt Carrington engaged in when he was beginning his pledge process. All he had to do was trade clothes with a homeless person. Is that so diffeent? For those of you who may not remember, Matt ended his pledge process in a freezing wet basement, he died of water intoxication two years ago, exactly. That is why I am against hazing. Because kids never know when hazing will skid into the hazardous zone! Do you?

Originally posted by

Larry

I agree with the people who understand that no one was ever harmed at this event and that the newspaper is being rediculous for trying to bring down their fellow students.
on page A7, the section titled "Athletics Department in the Wrong" it says at the bottom of the second column:This publication found that it was unfair for the Athletics Department and its director to not give the women a chance to have their voices heard in this sensitive story and to dictate who gets spoken to on the basis of a story's content. This paper's objective is to serve the public by publishing stories that uncover any potential wrongdoings, and the public should be able to hear all sides of the situatin. By not cooperating with the student press, the Athletics Department is harming the athletes involved as well as the public's right to be informed."
Have you ever heard and totally agreed that the media these days tries to MAKE stories? The media now is always trying to portray stories in a way that they think the public will respond to it rather than the real truth, which may be boring to some editors, but the truth is what people really want. The reason people are commenting on how this article is rediculous is because there is no backing of what happened. All I have concluded from this article is that team members and the athletic department decided not to talk or give information to the hornet. Especially after this article coming out, trying to coerce members into "letting them give their side of the story" would only harm them because thats what this article is trying to do. I am a writer myself and i feel like this was just a waste of a front page article...good luck to the writers trying to gain credibility with this one under their belts

Originally posted by

Andrew Klay

They look like they're having fun. Who cares?

Originally posted by

Don

As a parent of one to the freshmen in the group, I want to thank Kelly for expressing an appropriate response to the newspaper's blast. My daughter told my wife and I that the party was as safe and enjoyable as any event she has ever attended in her ten plus years of club soccer and high school. Furthermore, there was never any mention of anyone being mistreated or humiliated.

She enjoyed the time shared with her teammates and was grateful to be part of the group. We were aware of the party and were pleased to hear that it was a fun and safe evening for the ladies. Neither her nor her mother and I felt that the event or activities were inappropriate.

Could this be related to the fact that, as well accomplished student-athletes, these young women are confident, mature members of society that don't cry "foul" just because others around are ridiculously sensitive?

Originally posted by

Don

As a parent of one to the freshmen in the group, I want to thank Kelly for expressing an appropriate response to the newspaper's blast. My daughter told my wife and I that the party was as safe and enjoyable as any event she has ever attended in her ten plus years of club soccer and high school. Furthermore, there was never any mention of anyone being mistreated or humiliated.

She enjoyed the time shared with her teammates and was grateful to be part of the group. We were aware of the party and were pleased to hear that it was a fun and safe evening for the ladies. Neither her nor her mother and I felt that the event or activities were inappropriate.

Could this be related to the fact that, as well accomplished student-athletes, these young women are confident, mature members of society that don't cry "foul" just because others around are ridiculously sensitive?

Originally posted by

Don

As a parent of one to the freshmen in the group, I want to thank Kelly for expressing an appropriate response to the newspaper's blast. My daughter told my wife and I that the party was as safe and enjoyable as any event she has ever attended in her ten plus years of club soccer and high school. Furthermore, there was never any mention of anyone being mistreated or humiliated.

She enjoyed the time shared with her teammates and was grateful to be part of the group. We were aware of the party and were pleased to hear that it was a fun and safe evening for the ladies. Neither her nor her mother and I felt that the event or activities were inappropriate.

Could this be related to the fact that, as well accomplished student-athletes, these young women are confident, mature members of society that don't cry "foul" just because others around are ridiculously sensitive?

Originally posted by

Don

As a parent of one to the freshmen in the group, I want to thank Kelly for expressing an appropriate response to the newspaper's blast. My daughter told my wife and I that the party was as safe and enjoyable as any event she has ever attended in her ten plus years of club soccer and high school. Furthermore, there was never any mention of anyone being mistreated or humiliated.

She enjoyed the time shared with her teammates and was grateful to be part of the group. We were aware of the party and were pleased to hear that it was a fun and safe evening for the ladies. Neither her nor her mother and I felt that the event or activities were inappropriate.

Could this be related to the fact that, as well accomplished student-athletes, these young women are confident, mature members of society that don't cry "foul" just because others around are ridiculously sensitive?

Originally posted by

Sarah student

I'm getting really tired of reading uneducated comments. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please think before you type.
Here are my problems with what has been said so far:

1. Whether or not the women hazed the freshmen is not for the Hornet or any other reader to decide. That will be decided by the campus judicial officer, Mr. Valdez. That's his job. Just like the Hornet's job is to report the news of this campus. And when prominent students, well know on this campus and in the community, are being investigated for possible hazing, that's news.

2. KD: Slander is spoken, libel is written. Get your definitions right. The Hornet has not defamed these girls in anyway; especially since they so easily defamed themselves with penises drawn on their bodies. According to dictionary.com, the definition of libeling someone is "anything that is defamatory or that maliciously or damagingly misrepresents." The Hornet didn't claim anything that was not already represented in the photos. They women would never win a libel case in court with that proof of their character.

3. Does anyone feel it's appropriate for the parents of these women to be encouraging, promoting and defending underage drinking? Come on we're all in college. What do you think is inside that "red party cup?"

4. Every one keeps saying that this was a safe, private party. However, if it was so private, what is that dude doing hanging out in the background of one of the pictures? Last time I checked there weren't any men on the women's soccer team.

5. And for all of you who keeping griping about how this is not a story need to get back in touch with reality. Read the story again. These pictures are involved in an "ongoing investigation" with the campus judicial officer; therefore, it is a story. The possible punishments could be any number of things and range from, as stated in the story:

"Wanless said there is no punishment standard for hazing in the Athletics Department. Dismissal from a team or suspensions from games are possible punishments."

Maybe Dr. Wanless should look up the NCAA rules and regulations on hazing. Trust me, there are some. Here's one example:
Northwestern suspends women's soccer team
EVANSTON, Ill. -- Northwestern University suspended its women's soccer team Monday while the school investigates alleged hazing involving players last year.
The school learned of the allegations Monday, athletics director Mark Murphy said in a statement.
"If the investigation shows that there has been a violation of Northwestern's policies, appropriate sanctions will be imposed and the Athletic Department may take additional action as well,'' Murphy said.
The statement did not provide details about the alleged incident, and a Northwestern spokesman Alan Cubbage said the school would not comment further.
A Web site on Monday displayed pictures allegedly of Northwestern soccer players in T-shirts and underwear, some wearing blindfolds and others with their hands tied behind their backs. Other women had words or pictures scrawled on their bodies and clothes, and it appeared some were drinking alcohol.
"We have confirmed that a majority of these photos are of Northwestern University women's soccer players," Mike Wolf, an NU assistant athletic director, told Chicago-era media.
Northwestern's Division of Student Affairs will conduct the investigation, Murphy said.
"I have asked all Athletic Department staff, team coaches and members of the team to cooperate fully in the investigation by Student Affairs,'' he said.
A message left at the office of women's soccer coach Jenny Haigh on Monday night was not immediately returned.
The Wildcats' 2006 season is scheduled to begin in August. Northwestern finished with a 9-9-1 record last season.

Why don't you all Google "NCAA hazing," read some stories on similar instances of these allegations, realize that whether or not you think this is ok doesn't matter, and come back with something intelligent to say. Thank you.